The Wookies / Secret Rivals @ The Bullingdon Arms, Oxford, 24/09/2009

Everybody, and I mean everybody, is at the O2 tonight watching TynchyStrider. It’s probably the safest place to be, and frankly they don’t miss anything from openers Secret Rivals. Their MySpace demos whizz past with no great focus or attention to detail, and the live show is pretty reflective of that attitude. Yelpy shouting of empty slogans meets one-dimensional high speed pop punk fuzz. I’m sure the kids of today love this kind of stuff and find some deep meaning in it somewhere, but it left me feeling devoid of any attachment or feeling. There’s nothing wrong with simplicity in music, but simplicity needs to be backed up with something else that gets the attention – hooks, aggression, carefully crafted arrangements, smart lyrics, a great vocalist, stage presentation, something, anything. Sadly, the Rivals are shown up by their lack of ideas and underdeveloped songwriting, but at least they have the youth and enthusiasm on their side to change that.

The Wookies are altogether a different squid. Ostensibly they’re more or less straight-up guitar pop, but they have a nice line in waltzy arrangements, cheekily dropping in odd time signatures and hooky guitar and synth lines. Crucially, every instrument is adding something that both supports the song and is also interesting and creative on its own, something the previous band could learn a lot from. Standout member tonight is the bassist, who breaks a string early on, swiftly grabs the Rivals bassist’s instrument (presumably with the latter’s permission) and carries on. He’s got a mighty tone and is both dextrous and tasteful. The four vocalists aren’t quite balanced in the PA, which detracts slightly from the harmonies and different lead parts, but the anthemic “In the Forest” ends a strong set.

  • Beaver Fuel

    So, Drunkenstein didn’t play then…?

  • Big Tim

    Uh, yeah, we did. Not sure why we didn’t get into the review…? Maybe we blew the reviewer’s mind and he was incapable of putting into words the enormity of what he’d witnessed.

  • Beaver Fuel

    Maybe he just f#’#’#d off before you played?

  • Big Tim

    Most likely. I wouldn’t have blamed him – Jamess was terrible. The rest of us were pretty good.

  • Beaver Fuel

    Equipment failure didn’t exactly help!
    Oh, and sorry about the feedback, but Jamess did tell me to turn it up to 11…

  • jamess

    got to agree with BT there. i had an absolute mare of a gig, and i’m going to blame my soldering skills. Fixed up speaker cab, but a lethal combination of being wheeled to gig, and then abused by the wookies meant that my 4×12 curled up and died during our set. Sometimes full volume, sometimes quietly crackling and often not there at all, it proved a major distraction and threw me on remembering lyrics as well. Disasterous.
    About 2/3rds through the set, the changing point was my striding over and kicking the cab back into life. After that i genuinely didn’t give a flying f#’# what happened.
    I would imagine at that point the reviewer drowned his/her/its sorrows in cheap lager or dived up the road to the “freshers fair” & rap at the cardiac.

  • Beaver Fuel

    Everyone was piling out of the Odiac before you even played! Which reminds me:

    “…everyone’s at the O2, there’s some rapper there who’s sold out.”
    “Haven’t they all?”

    I only wish that statement was further from being nearly true.

  • Beaver Fuel

    [size=tiny]Sorry Colin[/size]

  • jamess

    have you just censored me? you utter f**k*g c**k**g b*st**d!

  • colinmackinnon

    I’ve told you rotters before-it’s not a question of prudishness, its that work Webmarshalls block sites with a lot of swearwords- not great for our traffic flow!And also I don’t want to scare away potential readers of a sensitive disposition.

    Anyone who knows me, knows that I cuss a blue streak.

    Anyway, I promise we’ll have a reviewer on Drukenstein in the next few weeks.

  • JAY RIVAL

    I was c#nted beyond belief during this gig, so we were probably awful ( i remeber i forgot how to play guitar for the last few songs) i was under the imprssion no real people were there….ooops can reviewers please make thm selves known that way i can just stick to the pints heh.

    Wookies were and are amazing!

    fuc# it we looked hot! (and thats all that matters really)

  • jamess

    problem solved – didn’t know that. i do think the falling apart (words chosen carefully) of speaker warrented a special “blue air” occasion. If it makes you feel any better i cannot actually recall swearing during the gig.

    “Anyway, I promise we’ll have a reviewer on Drukenstein in the next few weeks.”

    how about next sunday – oct 4th at the wheaty, supporting ZU? *

    *more plugs than bathstore.com.

  • jamess

    “fuc# it we looked hot! (and thats all that matters really)”

    of course you did – that’s stagelighting for you……

  • Big Tim

    > i was under the imprssion no real people were there….

    Reviewers aren’t real people, they’re just strange ghoul-like apparitions that lurk in corners writing in black pen on black paper so no-one knows they’re there.

    In other news, I’m happy to report my copy of the latest nightshift was hand-delivered by ninja that night. Sweet.

  • Dave-G

    >how about next sunday – oct 4th at the wheaty, supporting ZU?

    James, for a moment I thought that said ‘supporting U2’!

    -Dave G

  • colinmackinnon

    Jay,

    I have to say that if what you say is true (rather than a bit of comic exaggeration), it shows a pretty poor attitude. If you were only playing to a tiny audience, it shows disrespect to the handful of people who DID come out and support you that you got bladdered and played a load of crap. And why would anyone reading this here ever want to come to a Secret Rivals gig again?

    Contrast that attitude to the Schnauser gig described above. They were essentially playing to me and a handful of Anton fans (the Dial F crowd showed up much later), but they smiled, they put on a great show, and won a few friends. Fact is, you can never tell who’s going to walk in at a gig, so if you’re serious about getting somewhere, you have to show respect to your audience, no matter how small.

  • JAY RIVAL

    Actually i did want to retract my comment that we were probably awful, (we were fecking sik!!)the reviewer seems to me to be having a pop at a genre rather than a band ‘im sure kids love this but…’ i was reet drunk but i enjoyed it and the people that like us like us drunk lol….nay they demand it lol….(thers a lot of young grunge happy sober nice bands in ox who want to ‘make it’ and we certainly dont want to be considered with any of them)

    ( the funniest comment i got after this gig was as all over the place as you are your the band that will be signed…. i presume this is because of how we play on stage)

    its Fact that blokes with long hair and metal t shirts in there 40’s are gunna hate us….your reviewer will have hated us the moment we got on stage, to say we lack aggression or attitude i think is a bit of strange one as most reviews of us live make a point that that is (in some cases the one thing) we have in abundance.

    like us or not we mean it…

    cheers for the advice though mate its always good to have someone who has ‘made it’ looking out for you.

    we just wanna have fun.

  • Joe

    “I was c#nted beyond belief during this gig, so we were probably awful ( i remeber i forgot how to play guitar for the last few songs) i was under the imprssion no real people were there….ooops can reviewers please make thm selves known that way i can just stick to the pints heh.” – Jay

    I agree with Colin and really I think he’s being polite about it. Calling people “no real people” is quite frankly insulting. Also I find Jay’s ‘excuse’ a little odd because the reviewer didn’t actually appear to be knocking the musical ability of Secret Rivals anyway, it seems that what was lacking was stage presence, a connection with the audience and songs that engage the listener in whatever way and that is all down to the front man’s attitude I think. Being ‘C*nted’ is no excuse for that, actually perhaps it should have added something! Some band members in certain types of bands should be able to get utterly wasted and still give a good show.

    Some people can get away with attitude, it adds something, The Fall for example, Cardiacs but bands that do well with that still manage to engage the audience, make the person watching them feel connected with the person on stage, people tend to not like to watch someone who comes across as if he either couldn’t give a shit whether you were there or thinks he has some right or it’s a gimmick to ‘rebellious’.

  • JAY RIVAL

    Were just relieved he chise not to publish any of the onstage rants (which i actually do regret)

    Reece gets better with drink and thats fact, i like to think of it like snooker, you always play your best with 4 pints in you….there is a line though.

    i dont think we ever dont ‘go for it’ on stage weather its infront of 100 people or infront of the Wookies and a few mates (which this gig was) i fed them all wine told them (crap) jokes and had a dance with them all…what more should i have done??

  • JAY RIVAL

    Ive really considered weather to answer this or not (cus of the source and the rest of my band worrying im turning into one of you guys) but i will….(then im off home)

    when i said real people Joe i mean people who have come to enjoy, dance drink …. there was 5 audience members when we played all of whom were dancing and whooping (engaged or not you tell me?) at the front.

    im not saying that some folk are not ‘real’ just that i presumed outside of the people dancing at the front (the people we play for) there was a sound engineer and a reviewer skulking in the corner, we dont play for these people….(and sack it if you cant tell a joke from a rant then why bother at all……)

    Oh and when did i become a frontman?!?!?!?!?!
    Clouds fronts The Rivals if you dont know who even fronts the band i really dont know why im taking onboard your opinion.

  • scott h.

    jay, i feel you may not be understanding my reviewm, or trying to extract an angle that isn’t there. i wasn’t saying the genre is rubbish (pop-punk offers a lot of good music, and oxford has quite a few bands doing it well), i was saying secret rivals were rubbish on thursday. i’m willing to accept that your lashed up state might have impinged on your playing, but i felt the band offered very little musically, and i don’t call 3 people stannding around staring at their shoes a great, attitude filled performance. Your drummer was the most lively out of the lot of you.

    however you’re right – you were the most likely band to get signed out of the three on thrusday. wookies are a great band but they’re a decent fish in a massive sea of other bands also with good ideas and execution, so they’ve got an uphill struggle to make it. i only saw one-and-a-bit songs of drunkenstein and had to leave, which is why i didn’t include themm in the review, but they’re all older and play much different music, which isn’t that commercial. so yes, rivals are young, have good haircuts and a girl singer, therefore you probably can’t fail. however you were easily the worst band of the night, and i couldn’t ignore that in the review.

    glad to see it sparked some debate though.

  • JAY RIVAL

    We do that lol.

    Cheers man, ill take that.

  • Beaver Fuel

    >Oh and when did i become a frontman?!?!?!?!?!
    Clouds fronts The Rivals if you dont know who even fronts the band i really dont know why im taking onboard your opinion.

    It looked to me like you were the frontman as you seemed to be doing the most singing. Stage position wouldn’t account for these things either, as surely the drummer is the frontman in the Wookies?!

  • http://www.gappytooth.com gappy

    I wasn’t at this gig, but if the Wookies drummer wasn’t “c*nted” then something was probably wrong!

  • http://wookipedia.co.uk Luke Wook

    :O Young Alex should never be credited with being a frontman. Would you have told Stalin he was the frontman? These are dangerous times…

    I enjoyed the Rivals. It was very loud and ouchy for my ears – but I am getting old!!

    And sorry, I love Drunkenstein and Jamess, but the treble on the bastard amp almost melted my brain!!! Turn that slag down.

    I’ve had various Rivals and Drunkenstein songs in my head for a few days now, which is thoroughly enjoyable.

    Rivals were definitely more ramshackle than I’ve seen them before and I understand that it is easy to let your head drop if the crowd is not huge, but I do think that Jay in particular focussed on the people at the front (us) and gave us a good show.

    Finally, thanks very much for the reference to my personal performance. Very pleased and flattered and it was all because Andrew of the Rivals shared his guitar with me. Very grateful!?

    BUT – who is Mr Scott H? There was a chap sitting down, making notes. He bought our CD, but his name wasn’t Scott. Does this man write under the moniker of Scott H? Or is he someone else…. the plot thickens.

  • Joe

    Jay,

    Let me put this simply:

    You, on most occassions lack empathy. You refuse to put yourself in other peoples’ shoes and see yourself and your band as others see them. This, I think is the main problem, it’s the reason why all that stuff happened on the punt thread on Nightshift, it’s the reason why you misunderstood the review, it’s the reason why you argue that you are not the frontman. Other people see you as the frontman, whether you think that is right or wrong will not change the situation and unless you start accepting that other people have a different perception of things then I suspect you’ll continue to provoke these arguments by making insensitive comments.

    It wasn’t obvious what you meant by “real people”, it’s up to you to make yourself clear. The problem for me is that I don’t trust your word, I’ve got very good reason to as well.

    “cus of the source and the rest of my band worrying im turning into one of you guys”
    I am amazed that people are still treating you in a civilised manner when you continue to come out with insulting guff like that.

    Now, I had no idea what this rant was about or who it was about and I’m fed up with you being apparently deliberately vague about certain things as if you are attempting to get away with insulting people indirectly, you need to construct things a bit better if you want to be successfully snidey in your remarks, even then you will end up appearing arrogant.

    I suspect what has happened with you Jay is this:

    You been told not to post by your girlfriend and band members because you essentially insulting and embarrassing them by proxy.

    You have such a strong ego that you have to make a comment and so in order to try to get around being effectively told off you are deliberately vague, sarcastic or make your comments out to be just a joke.

  • Big Tim

    Uh, easy there Joe. I took the “no real people there” comment to simply mean there wasn’t very many people there, which was true, it was a very sparsely attended gig. It’s very easy to misunderstand someone’s use of language and although that was admittedly pretty vague, I didn’t interpret it to be derogatory of the people who were there.

    Once again there’s some personal battle going here that doesn’t belong. I don’t think Jay has been out of order in the slightest on this thread and this is not the place to bring up personal confrontation. Leave it out.

  • Yawn

    Yea Joe shut it.

  • jamess

    difficult one to quantify -this entertainment stuff. just two examples of stage minimalism spring to mind – kraftwerk and ride – it’s not like they’re leaping about putting on a visual show, but the noise can be devastatingly effective.

    i’ve seen secret rivals put on much sharper performances, but i was very happy with the way they played, and it was obvious they were enjoying themselves. At the time a certain thought crossed my mind that by being somewhat huddled together and pretty much facing each other much of the time, it came across to me that it was a visual indication that they were very much playing the songs for their own benefit and the audience were almost superfluous, sicne they were obviously enjoying it for its own sake. This is no form of criticism, and indeed is rather endearing.

    wookies were supreme, and i’d argue there’s definitely a nice in the market for them – they’re doing enough gigs to command attention, and they’ve as much a chance of making it as the young knives, wombats or kaiser chiefs, if i might assume such comparisms.

    as for the stein – well, my amp problem has been recorded already. regarding volumes, can i ask which amp was the piercing one? i’d assume mine, but it was kak for the majority of the gig, but i’d imagine on the few occasions it chimed in properly it was way loud, since i’d hoiked the volume to try to compensate for the semi-permanent half volume state it was in. Sorry about that, and i’ll make sure it never happens again, because it contributed to my utter despair on stage and much wailing and grinding of teeth.
    can i suggest this if you’re curious as to how the songs should sound? http://www.myspace.com/drunkensteinuk.

    cheers, j

  • Beaver Fuel

    It wasn’t Owen’s guitar that was too loud. Owen’s guitar is never too loud. In fact, he has completely the wrong attitude for a lead guitarist as he’s forever turning himself DOWN! Which is why I kept tweaking him up.

  • Big Tim

    Fortunately Jamess’s amp was furthest away from me, so I didn’t get the full blast of it. But yeah, Jamess’s sound is pretty sharp and thin, so if that was accidentally blasted at you at double volume then it would be pretty nasty! I do feel sorry for both of you “front row” people…

  • jamess

    …methinks i can do summat about this…….turn the treble down? Nooooo – turn the bass up!
    sceriously though, i’ve deliberately veered towards a sharper sound, and ofen use a coil tap to get “stratty” sound to increase contrast with owen’s les paul/mesa boogie sound. owen’s got a beaut of an amp, but tis a 30 watt job, and he’s not got the guitar fully shielded so he’s deliberately a bit quiet to stop it kicking off so much. This means he can get overwhelmed a bit by tim, who hits drums rather like something colin would rather i didn;t mention here.

  • Beaver Fuel

    That isn’t an amp Owen plays through, it’s a crystal set…

  • http://wookipedia.co.uk Luke Wook

    Ah no – I am not saying your sharper tone is a problem. I’m saying it was toooo trebbly on the night. Didn’t bother me last time I saw you. I really like the jagged, cliff-face sound you have. It’s perfect for the band, but Tim’s right – that level of treble, at that volume was OUCH…

    I love the ‘both of you “front row” people’ reference!!

    When will Drunkenstein play in Reading?!

    P.S. Who was Scott Haynes? What he look like?

  • Jay Rival

    Luke i hope you guys will come down to Face Bar on Thursday!!! i promise we will not be drunk!! and it will be reet good.

    (Reading is yet to really witness drunken ‘we will be the villans you want us to be’ Rivals…then again weve never witnessed a rather predictable Reading backlash so us and Reading are freinds lol)

    Oh and James made a good point ive never ever given any thought to, i ALWAYS turn my mic (and torso) inwards on stage and face Clouds, its not so much as a diss on the audience its just thats how we rehearse and thats what im used to (and someone probably told me it was ‘a look’ once so ive stood by it)

    you know we love you all (except you Joe sorry, we can work it out though man put down the haterade and pop in for some tea)

  • jamess

    yarp – didn’t take it as any kind of diss – as i said , it’s kind of (cute?!) like the band gives a damn about each other ( here at the ‘stein we express our affection through kicking other and irate tirades)

    i read “haterade” as hat parade. You two should defintely meet over a cuppa – you’ll probably get on fine!

  • Big Tim

    @Luke Wookie: We’d be well up for playing Reading, I thought James was in the process of organising something with you guys? Mind you, he’s a bit scared of leaving the Shire, so he might be stalling on that front…

  • http://wookipedia.co.uk Luke Wook

    We’re both in the process of trying to get you guys the most ‘appropriate’ gig in town… hopefully soon!!!

  • jamess

    “the most ‘appropriate’ gig in town”

    coming to a landfill site soon!

  • Big Tim

    I think that’s a bit optimistic Jamess…

  • Joe

    “except you Joe sorry, we can work it out though man put down the haterade and pop in for some tea”
    Iconoclastic.

    Nothing to do with hate, most people will continue to give others the benefit of the doubt. You passed that point with me quite a while back, I’ve been paying attention and it’s reasonable to conclude that you are not genuine.

  • Joe

    “i was under the imprssion no real people were there….ooops can reviewers please make thm selves known that way i can just stick to the pints heh.”

    Reading this several times and it’s clear – it is insinuated that “real people” means people who Jay feels he needs to be concerned about what they think of him and his band, ie Reviewers. Which is essentially saying that he thought there were no reviewers in the audience therefore he didn’t care what those few people who were there thought, they weren’t “real people”.

    “BUT – who is Mr Scott H? There was a chap sitting down, making notes. ”
    It’s a conspiracy, Zoe was going to review the bands but she was too busy unsticking all the keys on her typewriter.

    “Your drummer was the most lively out of the lot of you.” – scott h

    Nice one

  • colinmackinnon

    OK folks, we’ve had a good old chinwag on this gig, so I think now’s the time to stop. Further postings will be deleted. Feel free to comment on Dial F, Dog Party etc.!
    Colin